Episode Transcript

Cortney Piper: Welcome to Energizing Tennessee, powered by the Tennessee Advanced Energy Business Council and FirstBank. We’re your number-one podcast for news about Tennessee’s advanced energy sector. I’m your host, Cortney Piper.

We’re back with another conversation with the Tennessee Valley Authority for our dedicated listener base. You might remember our second episode with Joe Hoagland, TVA’s VP of enterprise relations and innovation, or our bonus episode focused on busting common myths about EVs with Ryan Stanton, TVA’s senior project manager of EV evolution.

In this episode, I speak with Michael McCall, TVA’s Chief Sustainability Officer, about how TVA prioritizes sustainability and has shifted its mindset from compliance to stewardship. This shift in mindset enabled the nation’s largest public power provider to make significant progress towards reducing emissions, increasing biodiversity, decreasing water use, and improving energy efficiency, which can serve as a model for other federal agencies and utilities nationwide.

As always, if you like what you hear, subscribe to our channel, and don’t forget to leave a rating or review. It helps us reach a wider audience to champion Tennessee’s advanced energy sector.

Energizing Tennessee would not be possible without the support of TAEBC members and our sponsor, First Bank. To learn more about FirstBank and how they can support you or your business, visit firstbankonline.com.

Today on the show, I’m speaking with Michael McCall, Tennessee Valley Authority’s Vice President of Environment and Sustainability and Chief Sustainability Officer. 

Michael McCall: Good morning, Cortney. How are you today? 

Cortney Piper: I’m good. How are you doing?

Michael McCall: Doing very well. Appreciate the opportunity to be here. 

Cortney Piper: Great. We are happy to have you here.

First question to you, Michael, just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and how you arrived at TVA and this current position. 

Michael McCall: Oh, thank you, Cortney. Yeah. I’ve been at TVA for a little over 20 years, was born in East Tennessee, and haven’t really ever moved far out, went to college at Tennessee Tech and also UT, so a background in environmental engineering.

Been at TVA, like I said, for over 20 years, in a variety of roles at TVA. And so just really a great opportunity to be a part of an organization like TVA that’s really got a broad based mission, a long history in the Tennessee Valley. So, something to be excited about and an exciting opportunity to be a part of, really couldn’t be more thrilled to be the leader of a great team at TVA. And so it’s just a bunch of passionate folks doing great work day in and day out. 

Cortney Piper: At the Tennessee Advanced Energy Business Council, we have championed TVA as a great asset for our region, for our state, and for our country.

Y’all are the nation’s largest public power provider. Sustainability is a really exciting and important field right now. And TVA has this really unique, what we call three pronged mission of power generation, economic development, and environmental stewardship. So, let’s talk about your sustainability report.

TVA released your annual sustainability report earlier this summer. What are some top highlights from the report? Our listeners might want to know, especially in relation to TVA’s leadership in our clean energy future. 

Michael McCall: At the highest level, it’s about transparency. It’s about transparency and our progress. And it’s about transparency and our opportunities that remain. So some of the highlights I would say is really, think about sustainability. It generally has an environmental bent to the story. And so you’re going to see a lot of environmental metrics. Our clean, carbon-free energy percentage, 55%, is actually best in the Southeast and probably one of the best in the nation.

You start to see a little bit of the inverse of that is how much have we reduced carbon emissions since 2005, which tends to be a baseline for most industries. And so we’ve reduced carbon emissions by 53%, which is a corollary to here to the carbon-free energy that I mentioned before.

 So you start to see those big numbers embedded in here. Also, you start to see other areas where we’ve had environmental performance improvement. And so carbon tends to take up a big topic in this area, but there’s actually other metrics that matter environmentally when it comes to sustainability.

So you start to see a lot of the data relative to those metrics, and all the way down to, when we even have environmental events at plants, that stuff’s reported out, we track it very closely. Again, the team that I manage in TVA monitors this every hour, to be honest with you.

And so all of that stuff is tracked and we work very diligently to prevent any kind of environmental issues ever. And so staying ahead of that, all of that’s unpacked in the report. But it goes beyond that to talk about energy efficiency, how far we’ve come in some of our energy efficiency programs, working with businesses and industries and homeowners.

You’ve seen some of our school uplift, home uplift projects that we’ve done. So a lot of that stuff’s highlighted in there. I would also say we’d also get into one of the things that I’m most proud of is some of the biodiversity projects. So I think last year, not this past May, but the previous May, the TVA board adopted a biodiversity policy.

And so really starting to put alignment within the organization around where we want to be corporately with this space, but also aligning up specific dollars and specific projects. And so if you like bees and bats and things of that nature, the biodiversity space is a great program within TVA really looking for you’ve got the big carbon objectives, the big clean energy objectives, but you really get down to specific projects, boots on the grounds that probably would move the needle as much as anything in terms of stakeholder engagement and in terms of making improvements to natural habitat and natural ecosystems here locally, those things actually have as much mileage as anything.

And so we’ve had a long history in doing this, but we’ve actually put a little bit more structure to it, a little bit more rigor and a lot of that’s highlighted in the report as well too. So whether you’re talking about the big international issues like carbon reduction, all the way down to specific projects to conserve habitat, all of that’s in the report.

It’s something that we’re proud of. 

Cortney Piper: Let me ask you two questions to follow up on that one, starting with the bigger thing that everybody recognized, which is carbon, and then we’ll go to some of the non-carbon. That 53% reduction in carbon emissions since 2005. That’s a large number.

Talk a little bit about how you all got there. 

Michael McCall: It is, and so really, what is nuclear fleet for TVA. And so, in that time period. We brought on an additional nuclear unit down at Watts Bar we’ve actually refurbished some other units and upgraded our nuclear fleet, and a lot of investment of the nuclear fleet’s gotten us there what I tell you, really, as much as anything, is our nuclear fleet, I’m really proud of our chief nuclear officer, in particular, has gotten our nuclear fleet to be one of the best performing fleets in the nation.

Tremendous accomplishment there, and really talk about line of sight of the whole nuclear organization to deliver that kind of performance. Cortney, I don’t know that it’s ever been done in TVA’s history, and it’s one of those things that moves the needle corporately on performance, reliable and low-cost performance.

But in carbon, it tangibly moves the needle. So, additions and performance improvements in a nuclear fleet have been tremendous. We’ve expanded some of our hydro fleet. So we’ve actually extended the life of some units and went in and upgraded a lot of our hydro units. So that’s been an opportunity for us.

And then retiring coal assets that have been fairly public for TVA over this time period. That’s helped draw down our carbon footprint as well. We’ve added almost a couple thousand megawatts of solar and got several more thousand in the pipeline. So, we actually have added a lot of other renewable energy sources to our portfolio.

And then again, energy efficiency is an area where it’s a little bit hard to understand, but as you draw down the demand, that’s less load that you have to serve, and it enables you to use your cleaner sources to provide the remaining load that you are serving. So it’s really been a balanced portfolio of assets, of additions and performance improvements where we’ve got clean energy sources today.

So it’s really just been an overall balanced portfolio delivery. And I just tell you, probably as much as anything over the past five or six years, Cortney has been leadership by TVA CEO Jeff Lyash. He set out a pretty broad vision around TVA’s carbon accountability and what we need to do tangibly to draw this down while still preserving our ability to reliably and resiliently and affordably meet demand today.

But how we need to start driving this down over time. And then I tell you, I think the organization has responded well to this. Again, we’ve got challenges like every other industry does to go further faster. But we have gotten much further along than our peers. So it’s something we’re proud of.

Got a lot more opportunity to keep pushing further. That’s going to require, frankly, a lot of innovation in the whole energy space. And then I think you’ve talked to Dr. Charles Sims and others previously. Where we talked about the Valley Pathways Study and we helped to be a part of that. I know you’re familiar with that, but I would just tell you that there’s a broader story here in the economy of how we drive down other sectors as well, too. So we’re engaged in all aspects of it, but we’re really proud of the progress that we’ve made in the electricity sector. 

Cortney Piper: Now let’s talk about some of those non-carbon initiatives and how they have contributed to your sustainability goals.

You mentioned biodiversity and the board passing that biodiversity policy. Talk about some of those non carbon metrics and share some more good stories with us. 

Michael McCall: Environmentally, in our operations, we’ve really moved from a compliance mindset to more of a stewardship mindset. That’s had a tremendous impact in aligning the organization around accountability and driving to outcomes and progress.

You take this and you integrate it in with TVA’s other mission around managing natural resources for the valley. TVA manages over 290,000 acres of public land, 11,000 miles of shoreline up and down the Tennessee River. And so you really start to see a lot of accountability in that space, too, of having those facilities, having those areas in a good state, good standing, so that the public can go out and enjoy them.

We’ve actually seen this is one of the big benefits of TVA, particularly coming out of COVID. There’s a lot of in migration of folks moving into the Tennessee Valley. These public spaces that we own and maintain, they’re free to the public to use, and we encourage them to use it, but it’s something that’s got tremendous value here.

And the better that we manage these, it gives folks an opportunity to go out and recreate on public lands. It gives folks an opportunity to go out with their families, to get out on trails, to get out on the waterways. And so we’ve really taken a refreshed look at all of this space that we manage and how do we make it better overall.

So again, you’ve got a carbon narrative at the highest level all the way down to our environmental performance. Internally, the TVA is much improved and publicly, you see it in the lands that we manage and the opportunities that we provide for people to get out and have access to nature in the Tennessee Valley.

Cortney Piper: I want to emphasize what you brought up about shifting a mindset from compliance to stewardship because, from my perspective, that is tangible. And I think it gives us an opportunity both when you look at Tennessee and also the TVA region, to be a leader in this space and in sustainability and thinking about energy and accountability and transparency.

I might steal that, how you talked about that a shift in mindset from compliance to stewardship because that is tangible. And it does give us more of an opportunity to be a leader and have other utilities, no matter how large or small, look to us, to our region, to TVA as an example, and know that it can be done.

So, kudos to you all for shifting that mindset. 

Michael McCall: It’s a great point. And I think, on a utility level, absolutely. I think as a federal agency, TVA has a responsibility here too. So I get to participate in several forums with the Council Environmental Quality and others that basically it’s all federal agencies get together.

And I get to hear about what DOE is doing or DOD or Department of Transportation, NASA’s Postal Service, whoever it is, you get to hear about what they’re doing. But I think even amongst other federal agencies, there’s opportunities to share what we’re doing. I know they don’t all have the same operational responsibilities as TVA, but they have the same drive for, reducing their environmental impact corporately as well.

And I just tell you what I think that provides an opportunity to broaden our impact beyond the Tennessee Valley to other utilities and to other agencies around the U.S. Again, I think there’s an opportunity to lead on multiple levels, and that’s something that TVA takes serious, and that’s something that my team is looking forward how do we plug into those type of opportunities for attainment?

Cortney Piper: Now, one highlight in the report is TVA’s belief that strong governments leads to a secure energy future. And TAEBC is a member of TVA’s 2024 Integrated Resource Plan Working Group, the IRP Working Group. Could you speak more about how stakeholder engagement is critical to the success of the public power model?

Michael McCall: Really Cortney, I think it’s you know, it’s everything in the public power model when you think about it. And stakeholder engagement, you’ve got multiple ways to do this. And I think you really have to understand, even the local power companies that TVA sells power to, to serve out in the communities.

Every person that’s served by those local power companies has an opportunity to voice their perspective to the local power companies. They have an integral integrated role back into TVA in terms of being partners. And so from a power supply perspective, you have a direct line through your local power companies back to TVA to have a voice.

And so that’s really the heart of the public power model. But it goes beyond that and what TVA’s I think, belief here is. And so everything from our board all the way down to specific projects that we work on have opportunities for the public to engage, and public board meetings every quarter. They’re open to the public. I would encourage you to attend one of the listening sessions. If you’ve never had Cortney it’s quite interesting to hear the folks that show up and speak to the board. They show up and speak with passion about every issue you can imagine about whether it’s more solar power, reducing carbon impact, or hey, maybe farmers wanted to say, hey, we need to balance these kinds of goals with preserving farmland, or hey, we’ve got to talk about making sure we keep things affordable for ratepayers in the valley. So, with a lot of passion, folks show up and speak directly to our board about this and have for 30 or 40 years. I don’t know how long it goes back, but a really long time. 

So at the highest level, you have access to the decision makers of TVA. It’s a great thing. Regular access to the decision makers of TVA. It’s an integral part of the public power model, but then you go down to our NEPA, which is a federal agency or National Environmental Policy Act.

We have a defined framework of how we notify the public about actions that we’re considering and decisions that we’re thinking about. And you have ways to contribute into that, your input into those decisions. And go to TVA’s website, you’ll see a long list of NEPA activities. That we’re considering, and there’s public listening sessions, there’s public comment periods, all that stuff gets fed in, and it’s all taken very seriously.

Even down to things like our IRP, like you mentioned, we deliberately have a stakeholder working team, not as somebody that reviews it, but that’s somebody that’s brought into the front end that gets an opportunity to help shape that thing. And that’s something that we’ve done for probably 15 years now to have that stakeholder team embedded at the beginning of the IRP.

I remember working on one of these, probably back in the 2010 frame, and we were doing it then. But, even down to other areas that we’ve got a Regional Resource Stewardship Council, Regional Energy Resource Council. These are committees that get together, for the makeup of that is very diverse across the seven states that we serve.

Those folks get together routinely and give input into things that we’re working on, give input, get advice statements to our board. So we’re really, I think, on all levels of TVA, Cortney. It’s multifaceted, and sometimes it gets a little bit hard to manage all of it, but it’s really to get the input from stakeholders of this region drawn into the decisions that TVA is making because, ultimately, that’s what it’s about. It’s about public engagement and defining our future collectively together. And that’s really been the heart of TVA for 90 years of how do we do that? And sometimes you get folks on both sides of issues and you have to work to compromise and collaboration in the middle. But I think, ultimately, that’s the American way on how we get things done.

That’s been the driving force of TVA for a long time. And that’s really, frankly, when TVA works the best, it’s when we can get public engagement, public involvement, and it’s not always the loudest voices. It’s really getting more people to show up and to contribute and working together to solve problems.

Cortney Piper: We are incredibly grateful that we were selected to serve on that IRP working group. And you’re right, that sort of conflict, for lack of a better term or point counterpoint, is how you make good decisions. It’s how you get good policies because you can talk through both sides and figure out a middle lane.

So, Michael McCall, thank you so much for coming on the show. What is next for you and TVA? 

Michael McCall: That’s a great question. So I would say for 90 years, we’ve got a pretty good trajectory that we’re on. But I think, honestly, it’s about partnerships and innovation. We clearly, as an industry, the utility industry by and large, but we’ve got to get aligned around innovation priorities for the country.

We’ve tried several different things around with the Inflation Reduction Act, things of that nature to try to spur on innovation. I know the Department of Energy is pushing a lot of things. And so, really, we’ve got to coalesce around some specific path forward. I think the advancement of solar, the deployment of solar has really been good.

I think for us, we probably need to see some tangible improvement in nuclear opportunities in this country. So that’s one of the things that we’re interested in leading and interesting and pushing at TVA, but I tell you probably as much as anything, partnerships to drive outcomes.

And so TVA is not really ever intended to do all this alone, but we need to get more folks involved and pushing in this space. And I really think that’s what you started to see in the Valley Pathway Study that we started, that you were part of there, too. I think you start to see the opportunities that are laid out, and I think we’ve only scratched the surface in what partnership opportunities are out there.

The future holds a lot of mysteries for all of us and we’ll unpack that as we go, but I think the best chance that we’ve got is to be innovative and to work in partnerships to get there for common goals. 

Cortney Piper: Michael, tell our listeners where they can learn more about you and TVA’s sustainability work.

Michael McCall: Yeah. TVA.com is the easiest place. And so the sustainability report is there, we’ve got a lot of data on there. As much as you ever want to see, reach out to us directly. If you have questions, I’m happy to engage with stakeholders, happy to engage with community groups or businesses of any nature and any size.

We’re happy to do that at any point in time. But TVA.Com and our sustainability report there. And I think there’s actually a link for questions if you have any, but that’s the best place to get more about us. 

Cortney Piper: Michael McCall, Tennessee Valley Authority’s Vice President of Environment and Sustainability and Chief Sustainability Officer thanks for coming on the show. 

Michael McCall: Thank you, Cortney. 

Cortney Piper: And that’s our show. Thanks for tuning into Energizing Tennessee, powered by the Tennessee Advanced Energy Business Council and FirstBank. We’re glad to be your number-one podcast for news about Tennessee’s advanced energy sector. If you like what you heard, please share it with others or leave a rating and review. To catch the latest episodes, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don’t forget to follow TAEBC on social media, or sign up for our newsletter to hear about our events or learn even more about Tennessee’s growing advanced energy economy.